Finish advice please

[capt jake]

OK, I am nearing the point of applying a clear (or amber) top cot to the interior of my project.  ALL bright (Iknow, I am a glutton for punishment)!

It is all epoxy sealed and nearly all sanded (let me tell you, that is a royal PIMA).  I have been going back and forth on products and application methods.  I am condiering Nyalic r Varnish.

Varnish:
Pros: Nice amber color, relatively inexpensive

Cons: Going to be very hard to apply with a brush, considering all of the nocks and crannies.  Very long 'open' time, leading to dust attraction.

Naylic:
Pros: Dries ultra fast (10-20 minutes), can be applies with a roller (and self levels, so they tell me), multiple coats in short order.  Great coverage (350 sq/ft/qt)

Cons: Very expensive ($210/gallon), crystal clear (no amber look).  I am also wondering just how well it will look being as it dries to meer micons and it applied very thin.

I read here once about somebody applying varnish with a small spray gun (touch up or air brush, I can't remember).  The person also stated that the addition af a small amount of Japan Dryer (what is a small amount?) sped up the dry time to eliminate dust and allow for several coats in a day.

Anybody have some helpful advice?

Some out of date pictures, but you will get the idea (I need to dust off the camera).

[Oyster]

If you reallly want my opinion, I still go with spar varnish on wood, period, for so many reasons that its too long to type here. as far as Japan dryer, I also add it to my enamel paints to promote the drying and for multiple coats in a day. Too much will cause some flattening, too, which works also for sanding between coats for recoating, if you wish to wait longer than the green stage of materials.

[capt jake]

That is the direction I am leaning recently also. Only reason for a 'relatively' fast sure is the ability to apply the multiple coats in just a few days.

I have had very mixed luck with varnish in the past, mainly on large flat areas (like the deck). Would Penetrol help me out in those locations?
Another question; many of theh brands state that the previous coat of varnish must be sanded prior to re-application. Is that absoluely necessary? I wouldn't have a problem in sanding the outside deck and so forth, but I would REALLY like to avoid sanding the inside between coats. That is a buggar of a job.

You probably saw this somewhere else,but it works here also.

[Oyster]

Penetrol works fine. Using a very wide brush works even better for your job. Breaking you wet seams along the seams works wonderfull for hiding laps. Of course all of this is mute if you spray. But as far as sanding between coats, a simple scotchpad is better unlike sandpaper that sometime clings to the fresh coat on fresh and green varnish and all you need, especially with this being almost a flat area. But also keep in mind when varnishing over new and green finishes, the drying agent or inert ingredient such as mineral spirits will soften and remove the like finish ir used entirely by itself. So why do you not think that the ingredient will not attack the skinned over previous coat and make it one  unit? Just make sure that the coats are not too thick in the reapplication of additional coats.

I still would use the Japan Dryer in the buildup coat. Then let stand the last coat until your final process is done. Then recoat the decking with a smiple clean and freshen coat.

[capt jake]

So why do you not think that the ingredient will not attack the skinned over previous coat and make it one unit?

Uh, did I say that?  I think what yiou are saying is that the subsequent coats will adhere fine without sanding?

[Oyster]

So why do you not think that the ingredient will not attack the skinned over previous coat and make it one unit?

Uh, did I say that?  I think what yiou are saying is that the subsequent coats will adhere fine without sanding?

Why did I comment on issues relating to sand or no sand? ,HUM,, I can't imagine why.  

I have had very mixed luck with varnish in the past, mainly on large flat areas (like the deck). Would Penetrol help me out in those locations?
Another question; many of theh brands state that the previous coat of varnish must be sanded prior to re-application. Is that absoluely necessary? I wouldn't have a problem in sanding the outside deck and so forth, but I would REALLY like to avoid sanding the inside between coats. That is a buggar of a job.

Again, in the skin over and "green" stage, rarely, especially in an inside condition such as a work shed or garage setting, where the sun cannot  enhance the curing process more rapidly, most enamel coatings takes some time to completely cure through and through, or has been my experience with oil based varnishes.

Even Awlquip two part finishes also state that it can be recoated the next day without sanding, something that I do not do, but will scuff it with a scotchpad.

[capt jake]

I am really starting to hit a wall on this project.  Tired, sore, and tired (did I already say that?).  Just went to the glass shop...another $200.  Seems that everything I need is $200!
Up side is that all of the sanding is done!  Floors are made and the 3rd coat of epoxy (or is it 4) is curing.  I was going to apply a rubber matt, but can't seem to find anything.  I guess I will paint them off white and sprinkle non-skid on them.
Next week I will clean and clean some more in the shop.  Then build a 'tent' to keep dust off while I slather on way too much varnish.  Then I can start re-assembly, nop, I have to install the seats and bung all fo the 55 screw holes! Dang!  Then finish the tops of the seats off, 'then' re-assemble.

I hope to be done in April, in time to attend the local Wooden Boat Festival!

[PAR]

Penatrol will help "level" your varnish and if too much is used will flatten it a bit. Japan drier can reduce the cure time, but not enough to get more then a coat a day done. If your biggest problem with large flat areas is keeping a "wet" edge, then Penatrol is the ticket.

The spar polyurethanes now available, can be over coated in an hour or less, making several coats a day possible.

I've often suspected you can over coat on green finishes, getting a chemical bond and permitting sanding free build coats, but have been afraid to test my theory on something I care about. A few of the newer varnishes, particularly the urethanes advertise "sanding free" over coats. I've not tried any of these either.

[Hirilondë]

Awlgrip makes a "varnish" (it is some kind of plastic based clear coat, like urethanes or polyurethanes) that is designed specifically for fast build up.  It is not a 2 or 3 part material like their paints.   You can do 2 or 3 coats a day depending on temp and humidity.  It builds up quite fast, chemical bonds to itself very well and is a good way to level out raw wood fast.  It does not however have any UV protection.  This means you have to decide how many coats of "good" stuff you will finish off with.  I think it has its place when baring your wood or you have new wood.

[Charlie Jones]

Don't think I was the person you were referring to, because we don't use japan dryer, but we commonly spray varnish, both using a small touchup gun and with a large gun.

I use suction type Binks guns, shooting at close to 45 pounds. We thin just enough so the film lays down with no orange peel. Spray thin but wet coats.

No problem whatsoever doing that.

[capt jake]

Charlie, my concern with spraying is due to the potential for oversparay falling and being trpped inside he boat, causing a roush finish.  I have experienced this with faster drying paint like auto paint.  On most oil based paints, I have found the the overspray 'melts' in after 30+ minuts and cannot be seen.  What are your thought about this with varnish in thsi application?

[Charlie Jones]

we use Z Spar 2015 for almost every varnish job we do- acts about the same as oil based paints. I get a leveling effect and no noticable over spray as long as the stuff is thinned enough to not orange peel.

Of course, if the temps are flirting with the 100s or over, ya gotta thin more and move FAST!!! Or spray when it's cooler.

This was all done with a spray gun during some warm weather - it was sprayed at 3 AM




And even at that late hour, my help was still smiling- Actually she just reminded me - SHE shot that final coat- at 3 AM.

[capt jake]

Well, Charlie, you may have sold me on trying it again.  Do you add Penetrol to the mix when sprying also?  I know it creates more open time.

That is a nice looking job!

[Tom Lathrop]

Yes, John,  Charlie does it the same way I do.  Had not thought of 3 Am though.  Maybe less wind then to stir up dust.  I also use Z Spar although I bought the stuff with more UV and more money last time.  Overspray? Well, you gotta treat it like any other spray job and mask and cover everything else to guard against that.

[capt jake]

Another nice photo!  My only concern with overspray is where it will settle on the inside (where it will also be varnished).  I am going to build a very rough spray boot, mainly a plastic 'roof' to keep dust from settling on it.

Sure would speed up the process to spray it.  Or at least limit the amount of time I need to spend out there on each coat.