How does the weekender handle the rough water?

[dustywaves]

Hi folks,
am about to start my weekender and got a little spooked by a boat builder mate with regards to ballast and self righting etc etc.
I note that most of the photos of the boat in action are on reasonably calm waters.  I plan to sail in Hervey Bay Queensland (Australia) - it's protected waters but can get a bit wild at times (seas to 2metres etc).
Has anyone had any experience with the weekender in less than perfect conditions?  I would appreciate your comments!
Cheers from down under!
john.

[kydocfrog]

I am very new to this discussion, and not a naval architect, but...

The Weekender, including mine, Charlie Girl II, is big daysailer with an attitude. I don't think anyone here would call it a deep water, rough water, storm sailing boat.

She is not self righting. But that said, self righting is kind of a new thing... I owned a New England style cat, a Cape Dory 14 very much like a somehwhat less elegant Tidbit; a boat with a lot of beautiful photos on this board. She was a big heavy robust 14 footer, buts she wasn't self-righting. Heck, she had a mast that I swear was once the trunk of the national Christmas tree...self righting?...not without a crane. But I doubt that there are many small, wooden masted,  gaff rigged sloops or catboats that are self-righting...a relative term anyway. Self righting from where?  Inverted? 90 degrees?

The ballast thing is more interesting. There has been a lot of talk about that and deeper, more effective centerboards or keels. Tim Diebert, who hasn't been around for a while had a Weekender, Annie, with some really well thought out modifications of ballast, deep dagger board, and much improved skeg. Annie was probably was a lot more responsive sailer and more stable in most situations.  

But self-righting and ballast and all the rest are not substitutes for keeping your eyes open and not mistaking Weekender for a deepwater Friendship Sloop. She's cute. She's fun. I am more taken with Charlie Girl II every time I sail her (along with swearing I will never own another gaff rig while trying to extricate myself from tangled lines that I swear are malignant, but I said that after Charlie Girl I) She's faster and more responsive than I thought she would be. But she's got limits, and anyone who sails a Weekender has to be aware of them and their own.  

I've never been in a two meter sea. My sailing has been lakes and the upper Chesapeak. (That doesn't look like it is spelled right) Someone else will have to carry this discussion a little furhter.  

DocA in Kentucky

[Barry Pyeatt]

Well, from my first exposure to the Weekender.

Off Maui in the open ocean, 3-4 foot seas with the tops blowing off of all of the peaks.  Main reefed down by about 25%, with jib.  Only ballast was the two Hawaiian boys that owned the boat and myself.   They were both over 6'5" tall and well over 350# each.  Convert that to kilos and metric and it is still a lot of moveable ballast plus my trim, svelt 6'2", 230# frame at that point and we were sailing.  These two were all over that Weekender like ballet dancers.   We went approx. 2 miles in that to get around a point to sail in a little more protected waters.  No problems, no issues.  Never felt like I was in danger at any time.  The boat handled all of that extremely well.   Spent about 4 hours sailing in 15+ knot winds in protected water and then worked our way back to the launch in the heavy stuff.  Recommend it for a regular course of activity.  No!   But that little outing convinced me that the boat is safe and very sound and will handle the occasional outing or rough water that comes up quickly.   You  just have to know how to work thru it.   That takes some experience and time in the boat to know what it will do and what it will not do.  

Would I do it again, sure!    Best though is to keep inside a protected area as much as possible and avoid getting too far away from protected areas to pull up and wait things out when necessary.   The boat isn't going to be self righting in any way, even with ballast.   Add enough ballast down low enough to make it self righting and you don't have a Weekender.  Add internal flotation for off shore sailing and you won't have to worry about going down.   She will float, just not high enough to bail it out without added floatation.   Add ballast and you can't find enough room for floatation to make it bouyant enough to keep the gunnels above water if swamped.  

It isn't hard to right it when tipped on its side.  But bailing it out is another matter.  You have to add floatation to accomplish that unless you can hold her in shallow enough water to keep the rails above the water.

But I'm convinced that it is a safe/solidly designed small boat that is still a blast to sail in most conditions.  Just not an open water boat.  It is just a little flat bottomed joy to have fun with.   Add some well thought out reefing points on the main.  A smaller storm jib and you should be able to have some fun when it is blowing a bit.   And  still bring it home OK.

[PAR]

The Chesapeake is where I grew up.

Weekender, like all reasonably light weight, unballasted day boats will be twitchy in rough going. The waves will push her about a bit and handling will degrade as the conditions do. An experienced skipper can handle her for short periods of time, but a long bash in a sloppy sea will wear out the captain pretty quickly. Ballasting her will settle her down, but has other draw backs that may not be acceptable to you. Even with a substantial weight mounted on her keel, she will not gain much additional righting moment, it's just not far enough away from her CG to be terribly significant.

Self righting, shoal water craft require small cockpits, heavily crowned cabin roof, narrow side decks and substantial freeboard, plus several other things to permit a small sail boat to get back up on her feet in a hard knock down. The effort usually isn't worth the trouble designing, making an unnecessarily heavy, high sided craft. Most want the quick handling, nimble footed qualities found in these types of sailboat.

Weekender's stability range is typical of her class, some boats are better and others worse. Most every capsize I've been involved with or discussed with an owner was recognizable before the event occurred. It's possible a sudden micro burst can descend over you and slam you flat. Much more often you've noticed the wind building, tolerated excessive heel, not reefed down and told yourself afterward, that you "should of - could of", etc. when pressed for an honest assessment of the incident.

I'd not get to carried away with stability, ballast and righting arms, until you've some time in her to evaluate qualities. Learning what she likes, what she doesn't and how you should react is always the best course to sail. All boats have short comings and understanding what the limits of her performance envelope, is key to getting the most from her. Build her, use her and address issues from your experiences aboard her.

[dustywaves]

Thanks guys,
that's answered my questions -  and it still looks like the weekender is just what i want.  
Thanks again

John.

[ScottWidmier]

How much sailing in rough water do you want to do anyway?  I think the weekender will get you back to shore, a thought backed up by what is posted.  However, most sailors tend to stay in when the wind gets up above 20mph and waves work up to 2+ feet.

[dustywaves]

Yeah, good point.  My concern was the possibility of getting caught out overnighting and the weather changing unexpectedly.  But it appears the Weekender should be able to handle that under most circumstances - otherwise I'd beach it somewhere protected and wait it out.  

I was dismasted in my old 15' daysailer in the Hinchinbrook channel once.  ( a particularly nasty bit of water in north Queensland where incoming tide meets outgoing river over shallow inlet)  We were offered a tow to our destination but the weather report at 6am said 10 knots and seas to 1 metre so off we went - 7am they upgraded the report to 20knots and 2m seas -  but we were already around the corner and into it. Pretty unusual event but not unheard of at certain times of the year.  I think we would have been ok except a stay parted and the mast went west.  All very exciting - no real harm done - we dragged the mast on board, lashed it all down and paddled back to the dock.   We took the tow, did some repairs on the beach and spent a great week on one of the best coral fringed islands on the coast.

Could have been a lot worse but a good sea worthy boat made all the difference.