Old Florida Boats

[Pipefitter]

I have been searching thru many pages of google looking for traditional florida skiffs,boats,boat building,net skiffs,you name it. Florida maritime history amongst many other terms I could affix. I came across this picture from the keys. Is this a Florida boat? A type of sharpie?




I found an everglades poling skiff which looks to be a cross between a canoe and a pirogue but  surely there has to be others. Does anyone here know of any links or other information?

[Dave Fleming]

'eyrster' was just down your way, what coast I cannot recall.

He spotted a number of local types.

Send him an email.

[Pipefitter]

I was at the Cortez(gulf coast) boat show briefly...met oyster but didnt get a chance to see the museum.There was pole skiffs where I grew up and some we found abandoned that we would "fix" up and use them for fishing in Lemon Bay. Me and a buddy poled one 11 miles one night with the tide and 11 miles back with the opposite. Grass flats lined either side of the intracoastal and you could continuously catch trout all the way down and back. I just don't recall any real specialized boats over the net skiffs and never paid much mind to the sail boats.

Maybe I'll give the guy at the museum an email and see if he can help me out.

[Greno]

There is a wonderful book published called Gladesman about Glenn Simmons who grew up in the Everglades prior to being a National Park.  Plans for a Glades Skiff are in the appendix in the back of the book.  I have been meaning to throw one together for some time.  The skiffs will reportedly float on dew.

[PAR]

That looks to be a sharpie. They were built with square and rounded transoms and were descendants of the Carolina skiffs, which were related to the Chesapeake Bay tonging sharpies, which directly descended from the New Haven sharpie of similar employment. They evolved quite a lot over the generations, from hearty working craft to racing versions. They are a surprisingly attractive boat, particularly the rounded stern versions. I've seen plans for "sandbagger" versions that have a bow sprit half as long as the LWL, sticking out the front of the boat, with clouds of sail area, outriggers for the main sheet, square sail and double sprit booms. The more rationally minded kept them as cat ketches, with local variations to the rig setup, such as vertical reef points or "club and sprit boom" arrangements. The traditional ones usually have file planked bottoms and some a "built up" fore foot of much larger timbers, hacked to shape. Modern materials, like plywood and epoxy, have brought this fine boat back and can be put to good use in a new sharpie build, with a long life span.

Generally the sharpie is a light, fast and wet boat that usually was half decked. Length to beam ratios were on the order of 5:1 at the rail and 6:1 on the bottom planks. They also were know for low and springy sheer which helped their good looks a great deal. The racing versions of these boats (turn of the 20th century) would have near plumb side planks (very little flare) and working adaptations would carry a fair amount of flare. Rigging on all but out and out racers was very simple and kept light weight. The fastest way to wreck the performance of a sailing sharpie is to raise the sheer or add weight.

[Oyster]

Par, is it possible that you copied part of your reply from another source? I would like to address a couple of issues but would like to know the context of several statements included in your reply. Is there a link?

[Pipefitter]

I saw the glades skiff and it looks to be a balancing act with the push pole always keeping one's self right by keeping the pole on or near the bottom. Like narrow pirogue maybe.

I thought the blue boat in the above picture looked rather nice in it's own way. I know of the mullet skiffs here,the powered tunnel hull ones with the outboard up towards the front but I cant even find pictures of those online. Just hard to believe with this much water and maritime history as this place should have ,that the information be so limited. Is like with the influx of the transplanted fellow countrymen and the ways things have changed here so quickly, that not only are the old Florida crackers rare but it seems like the history went with them.

I would like to build Florida boats for Florida. Louisiana has it's pirogue and Lafitte skiffs ( dredge shrimpers are in common with here),Carolinas
have several speacialty boats as does the rest of the eastern seaboard but surely,Florida must have their share. Sofar,I have found only airboats and information  to pre cracker history with the Spanish ships.

[Pipefitter]

I emailed the museum in Cortez. Seems that they are feeling the developmental destruction of the waterfront there in that sleepy town as well. I did find or will find out more about the Florida boats with a visit to the museum soon.

"Hi Paul, Is there any chance you could get down here for a visit? We have some information about traditional Florida watercraft including Spritsail Skiffs, flat iron skiffs, Sharpies in a variety of lengths, Key West Smackies, and Bahamas style round bottom boats of the sort that were used on the Gulf Coast up until the 20's.  I think you'd find the shop to be an interesting place, too. I couldn't agree with you more about the destruction of the waterfront. We're in a pitched battle to try to stop that from happening here and it is a real fight. There's so much that's already gone. If you can come down on Saturdays Bob Pitt is here and can talk to with you about local boats. If you can make it on a Monday through Friday I'm here to do the same. Roger "

They seem like nice folks and the reply was prompt.I will head down there when my skiff is done and do some fishing while I am at it.

[Craig]

Try this for typical NW Florida Mullett Boats.  Scroll down for the green one.  Most up here have the motor set further aft about amidships and may have a small helm station pedastal.  ~20- 24' long, with about 8 or 9' beam.

http://www.duckworksmagaz...outings/florida/index.cfm

[Pipefitter]

Why thank you Craig. The green mullet boat was typical from where I came from. That one seems it has seen some use.  Lots of good pictures on that site. I remember when knowing people that fished for mullet that sometimes the market would be full,forcing the fish houses to put the fisherman's catch on consignment. A good price for mullet back then was around .60/lb. They did alright until alot of people started coming from other places jumping on the enterprize. There came a market for the roe and the fish would be thrown away by the dumptruck loads. We would get a call from the place we bought mullet from for smoking saying we could have as much as we wanted for free. The fish were in mountains with their bellies sliced open about to be taken to the landfill. With smoked mullet they are cut down their backs with their heads left on to keep them from curling up in the smoker and to keep the fat from running out. I remember being amused by the fact that the mullet was the only fish around here to possess a gizzard so we used to remark that it was the true chicken of the sea.A true Florida smoked mullet will melt in your mouth compared to the shoe leather fish jerky some places(mostly restaurants)peddle.

Thanks for the link.

[PAR]

No Mike, I didn't look up the sharpie type, I'm pretty familiar with their history. I sailed them quite a lot as a boy, on the Chesapeake and have been a fan ever since.

It's generally thought the Florida sharpies were developed locally from the Carolina versions, which migrated south from the Chesapeake, of which those were an evolution of the Connecticut tonging sharpies. There has been speculation as to where these may have come from (the Dutch maybe), but none with any reliability. The history of these types of working craft is difficult to pin down. Development was done as the needs arose, usually locally, modeled after another successful type. I have plans for several sharpies, most very old, by Chapelle, Monk, Gardner and a few others. Most notable modifications were not recorded, unless needed for class rules requirements. The racing versions are pretty well documented, but this dates back only to the turn of the 20th century. Before this things get pretty sketchy. There are several old books and magazines that offered plans or had ads for newly constructed sharpies and these have been of some help sorting out the model development.

As a kid I remember seeing these racing machines with double booms and square courses on the main stick. These things were weird looking and had a small platoon for a crew, but they flew. I also remember real racing log canoes with 12 guys hanging on to a small patch of pole, 8 feet to windward of the rail, just to hold them down. The knock downs were often and spectacular.

As to dimensions references, I used the traditional Chesapeake sharpie arrangements. A classic H. Chapelle 24'er was in WoodenBoat recently, full set of plans (design review section), where these general dimensions (according to his research) was also mentioned. Many have been made with much different length to beam ratios then what Chapelle thought was proper for a sharpie.

The next time I'm in the Tampa/St. Pete area I'll have to stop by. I was there just a few weeks ago. I would suspect many of the local fishermen don't go online to show the world their dwindling ability to make a living. The same was true a century ago when sail was being pressured by power for fishing. Many interesting, very specialized local types have been lost, left to die a slow death next to an abandoned shack at the water's edge. The men that stayed in the industry eventually made the switch to power. Those that left, moved on, likely leaving the boat to a creditor or other fishermen, if not to rot and die. Recording these models has had a very few individuals (Chapelle and Gardner are exceptions) to take up the task.

Having done some work for the few museums (latest was the Friendship Museum in Maine) that have a waterfront feature, funds and personal for this work is difficult to say the least. Most love the idea, but donate their disposable income to Sea World, Disney or other seemingly enlightening entertainment, rather then trying to preserve what's left or record the past history of the area and it's notable working craft. Keep up the struggle Roger, we need you.

I've smoked my share of mullet and it's not hard to do and sweet as it gets. Almost a good as wrestling a snook on bass tackle, then enjoying the benefits of being the victor.

[Pipefitter]

On the above picture of the blue boat,I dont see a place for a rudder. Is this a row boat?

[Oyster]

Hum, sharpies-skipjacks-jetskis-epoxy goop and plywood, all can have the simular affects on boat boards.   But as kids, sometimes the details were not part of the equation of having fun, too.

But since you bring up Chappelle in your posting, let me address something that is generally known but is quite to the contrary to your original statement.:

Generally the sharpie is a light, fast and wet boat that usually was half decked. Length to beam ratios were on the order of 5:1 at the rail and 6:1 on the bottom planks. They also were know for low and springy sheer which helped their good looks a great deal. The racing versions of these boats (turn of the 20th century) would have near plumb side planks (very little flare) and working adaptations would carry a fair amount of flare. Rigging on all but out and out racers was very simple and kept light weight. The fastest way to wreck the performance of a sailing sharpie is to raise the sheer or add weight.

The working sharpies, or the flat bottom ones, given your ratios, were never built liteweight, if you go back to the Chappelle plans for scantlings. On another board, there was also a discussion that brought into play Gerr's method of figuring sizes for hulls, which did not walk lock step with Chappelle. As you well know, hicking boards was the order of the day for most racing hulls even built with scantlings that showed almost 20 percent increase in thicknesses, not counting the oak framing, giving the original ones more than what is being used today.

Addressing the evolution of these boats, up and down the coast, you can to go back to the Huguenots when you also address some simular  designs  an rigging, which did originate from many European ancestors.

Smoke mullets? Yes I was eating smoked mullets, salted and processed for the winter in  mullet buckets,  wooden minuture bourbon barrels,   when many Florida fishernmen were scorning them as nothing more that fish bait selling a live single fish at a starting price of three times the wholesale price, or trolling bait brined, at around 2.50 per fish, in vacumn packed containers.

Well folks this is it for me. My spare time is now requested and needed in other areas, yes boats will be part of the day.  I will be signing off the internet forum for other ventures for now. You guys take care. E mail and pm features are still up and hope all of folks have a nice and enjoyable spring and summer with fair winds and cold beverages.  Cheers for one and all.

Life sometimes deals us all a big curve in the road, with no road signs to alert us.

[Craig]

Yes Pipefitter I would, by the photo, suggest this is a row boat.  She looks to weigh about 5lb less than a brand new truck!  Up home they would row this on the smaller lakes and put a one lunger on it for the bigger waters.  Keep the paint up and they would last for ever.  Folks would make these and leave them at the lake or pond for anyone to use.  I thought sharpies were all double enders??????

[Pipefitter]

I found a net skiff (poling version with no well or place for an outboard) and it was about i the state of the blue one pictured above with paint missing though. The frames were bolted to the floor timbers with galvanized carriage bolts (still quite galvanized despite the skiff's age) and although heavy,I could run out 300 yrds of net with an 18ft bamboo push pole. After not being claimed for 30 days,the marine patrol let me keep it. Crude,heavy boat but what a fishing machine. That boat had me in the best physical condition of my life especially when the noseeums where in persuit.

And where the heck you going,Oyster?