Bow skiff

[Pipefitter]

I was reading Rob White's web page in reference to the bow skiff and it's construction. How the flare was constructed of thicker planking and then shaped into a flare foreward bow section.

I hadn't really thought of this but there was a man in Englewood,FL. that had adapted this or a similar method to his mullet net skiffs. I remember him saying how boats were built sometimes with slab cypress and the bow was made seperately and attached to the hull. Not sure if this is the same method as what Robb White suggests.  He built this one mother of all net skiffs which is the boat that actually peaked my interest to wood boats and or composite construction or that I could build one.

The major portions of this hull was built with sawn frames of long leaf pine and DF marine plywood and fastened with bronze nails. The front flare of the hull bottom from the chine down started out as a huge laminate of wood strips placed vertically. He then shaped the rough flare with a chainsaw! Then it was mated to the rest of the hull and then faired with a disc grinder to the existing ply structure. The whole exterior of the hull was then glassed as one but with polyester resin. Under the glass,it looked as if each of those strips had been bent into that shape.

Has anyone ever seen this kind of construction? I last saw this skiff with a for sale sign out in front of someone's house and by then it was over 20 yrs old. Still looked good.It felt rather odd to see a boat that many years later that I had touched when it was built.

I know Oyster was doing something similar to this shaping on his stave planked boat and that was one of the closest I have seen to this method and then just happened on the Robb White article and it made me remember that transition from plywood to the laminate.

I sure miss old Florida.

Edited to add: Now I remember how it was fastened to the hull. There was a rabbet made into the laminate the depth of the plywood planking of the rest of the hull bottom creating a flange. It was then glued and bronze ring tailed about every 2-3" and it brought the ply planking in shape with this flare. This is what made the transition so noteable before it was covered with paint.

[Oyster]

I do not know the reasoning for the flare creation on those skiffs, but it could be that some never knew any other way to do it to get solid wood, the thickness of many work boat hulls to bend that way, while keeping the boat's mid sections "full" . It could be also that strip planking had not reached some of the more remote areas of Florida.

If you study up on most boat building in the more primitive areas, electricity was not part of the day for power tools for cutting fine pieces of woods to create flare.

I do know that on the Chesepeake Bay, 40 foot boats were planked with one continuous piece of side planking, fore and aft, with large amounts of flare. But correct sawing and selections of flat swan grains and planes were also chosen as the two basic tools of the day.


Here is an example of the smaller working skiffs, with the bottom vee creation of the sharpe transition of shallow bottom to vee entry, in a 20 footer.

You will need to double click to see the details of the chunks shaped to meet the changover. This job, in the rough was  a bit rough in the transition joint, but shows the concept.

I have also provided a more detailed shot of what happens with age, alllowing water to wick in the pieces causing problems down the road, if not kept properly maintained,

[Pipefitter]

They had indeed accomplished this without power tools way back when but this was in the 70's and he did still have his adzes and chisels,scorps and what not. He adapted to the chainsaw and was quite handy with it and not the kind they carve with. Using the rounded tip if the saw to start his hollow. He got this to within a strong 1/8th" above the rest of the hull. He was able to sculpt this piece without having to work under the boat or to have to flip the hull being the piece was small enough to move where he needed it.


 His flare was alot less crude than the photos you depict but the idea was the same. This section of the boat did not stay wet when docked and only really saw water when it was choppy or rough plus it was covered in glass sheathing. This from a home schooled (was raised in and about his fathers machine shop) machinist that was barefoot more than not,was born in his house and never made it past grade 6. No blueprints,half models or anything else. He would draw graph paper with 1" squares and plot his design on that. In a minute,he could tell you proportions of what made either a good displacement or planing hull.

He also made some of the prettiest nylon string cast nets that were dipped in green gard shrimp boat paint and could toss a 12ft net, waist deep in water that would *snaaap* into the prettiest 24ft circle you ever saw. I have yet to see anyone throw a net like this since.

This was the man that pointed out to me many years ago that only a fool could starve in Florida and how to make it with next to no income and eat much better than one can from any grocery store and we did just that. Now what isn't off limits is polluted and not from these "crackers" exploits. They pretty much just took what they needed to survive.

When it got to the point that Florida was ruined beyond all return,he packed up his family and moved to the hills of north Georgia and last talking to him, he was missing the life here on the water with me telling him of the skiff I was building until reminded what it is like here now. The most frustrating thing is to hear all these newcomers spout history of the place like they invented it or something. The transplanted tourist have changed all of these charming, little, out of the way places into a likeness of the freak show(I dont go there anymore either) in the keys.

Now it is I, that has to sneak off fishing in the middle of the work week to avoid the madness and inconsideration on the water these days. I guess maybe a couple more stout hurricane seasons will be the only thing that may thin this place out a bit of homes and highrises built on the waterfront and the willingness of transplants wanting to chance a life here without considerations of their environment.

Thanks for the reply and the pictures,Oyster. Sorry about the redundant rant of things I can't change. Just remembering where I came from.

[Charlie Jones]

I for one certainly understand your rant Pipefitter. Having lived in Florida back in the very early 60's, up til the mid 80s, I saw the same things.

About 15 years ago, after having been away for about 8 years we revisited the NE section, south of Jacksonville. Old A1A, where we used to park and walk across the dunes to surf fish is now wall to wall condos and houses. Even down Vilano Beach, at the St Augustine jetties, there are houses built BETWEEN the jetties!!!!!! Where we used to anchor and fish had filled in and become a sandbar, and there was a damned bunch of HIGH dollar homes out there.

Amazing that someone actually bought. Not so amazing that someone would sell the land. But I cannot understand how Florida would allow it. Must be reaping HUGE property taxes from them.

Got down to Matanzas Inlet (the east coast one) and you couldn't even get to the water anymore. Houses everywhere and beach access blocked. Even OLD A1A that the hurricane wiped out was posted as private property.

I don't even want to go back over there any more.

[Oyster]

Yep, things are just not like they used to be for sure... And that also applies to us, too.  But a lot of what you describe, pertaining to boat building technigues, came from past generations, too, on how the guy was taught, also continuing on the same, year later into the ancient 1970s. Some folks still feel comfortable, all be it a bit backwards in how we do things, still in building boats. I personally know of no one active, doing the staved bow, except some of the old family on the bay.

I would also venture out and say that one of the last editions of Wooden Boat Magazine, before I told them to keep their propaganda material has the article from Haiti, displaying a lot of I feel comfortable with, even to this day. Sometimes people will comment that I am out in left field when fitting teak mouldings with a 12,000 rpm grinder. I just chuckle and keep on for the lack of fancy compoound chop saws, with a block of heavy grit sandpaper to finalize the joints, joints that are fine for my 10 feet quality control guildlines.

This also transends over, now,  to what I feel is my ability to seek out everyday events that will give me a few moments of enjoyment, and let life continue on past me such as what you desribe that has taken place in Florida. If you want to cry, you can venture to Harkers Island, and see how generations of boat building families and commercial watermen have been squeezed out of some of the last fragile frontiers of wetlands left in the state.

Of course, there has been abuses from all parts of the past commercial fishing industry, but rarely have they lost their land from the abuse, which is happening now, by the simple fact that "If we can't buy up all of the waterfront land, at any price from some of these folks, we will lobby the Marine fisheries to add new laws, new licenses, and restricitons till they can't survive and make a living forcing, them to sell at a reduced price and leave. What happens is that the overbuilding has increased the land tax to a breaking point, too, for most of the blue color workers causing many to have to sell. Also another problem is marina facilites to keep their boats at, and access to the facilites which is not always the best kept places. As is everything, your work at the job, and a lot of other stuff at home suffers.  
Sorry Frank.... but the rant got out of hand. Done

[john bowen]

ANNEX!!! This is a word and doing, that is costing many, here in Florida.

(Sorry, just couldn't see leaving this out. Vary easy to get ................ When one has lived (lives) here in Florida.)

[Pipefitter]

Dang. I'm just tickled that I am not the only one ranting.It's good to sprinkle a little pepper on such boat related topics. Your staved boat pictures, where it shows you fairing the hull with that big grinder is what reminded me of seeing that before and where.

I am just ranting to make sure I don't forget where I came from anytime soon, like I had started to,wondering why I prefer to stay home more than not. I'm not crazy,I have seen good boats built like that. I also remember seeing them around and being worked for a very long time through a couple of owners atleast. I wish it was happening as much as it was then. Maybe I took it forgranted just a little but I do feel the "progress squeeze" here. My back yard is a little unruly but I have an owl that stops by and hangs out some nights, a raccoon that sat on my boat while I was working on it late,all for some fresh water and a little cat food.

I call it "xeriscaped" gardening because it is the native plants that survive the droughts while others tend to water 2x/week(more if there wasn't water restrictions). Did you know that some folks pay big $ to have their yards xeriscaped? Somehow,I am thinking I have quite the inside joke going on with them because my humble house came with it. The front yard is conformist but the back?,that's my little piece of Florida and I wouldn't change it for the world.

This thread may be a little twisted from directly related to boats but there wasn't much happening anyways and I am glad I got to hear from you "old timers", so atleast you know that this lad hasn't forgotten what was better. This is exactly why I am enthusiastic to see some of these "alternate" ways of doing things and why I don't find them crazy(heck,I have quite a few of my own) or odd. When I do get to see it? I remember and you wont see me thinking twice about using these ways when needed.

And Oyster? You keep right on doing it(like anyone could tell you not to) that way. I saw how fair that hull was with just the disc grinder on the staved boat.I can imagine you have worn a couple of those out in your time. Really good stuff.

And just to warn y'all up there in NC,I hear all the ones that are doing it here, talking about buying property up there, to "get away" from it all here. Guess I am too late?

[Ken_Potts]

I think you may be a little too late for the warning (thank you, though).  We're getting pretty overrun by Floridians this last decade or so.  They're nice enough people to be sure, but they sure do pay too much for land...

Nah, it's not just the Floridians, people seem to be moving here from everywhere - As I did, from CA in '89.  Has it really been almost 17 years?  It feels like a lifetime  If things get too crowded here I can always move to Alaska and spoil folks' view up there...  (No I can't - I'd die up there...)

[Pipefitter]

LOL....I always  tell folks from up that ways that if we were meant to live there,we woulda been born with more fur than what we have. Or,yeah,my body temp is 98.6...ofcourse I get cold when it gets down to 60.  Humidity: Hmmmmm...our bodies are made up of how much water? I went to Colorado for a couple years and my fingers cracked and split to where corn huskers lotion wouldn't phase it. Sure made for an interesting dance when plunging my hands into a pouch full of drywall screws.

I know it's inevitable. The world is growing and they gotta go somewhere. But dang,leave north where north is and live like south when one moves that way.I PROMISE I will do the same.

Would you believe that someone in the Spielberg mansion over by Ft Desoto, that took over our once desolate fishing hole and shoreline tried to have us run off? We had waded there from afar and they even called the cops and told we were tresspassing. I had to remind the officer that anywhere the tide touched was public right of way and he in turn had to inform them we were correct. I'm sorry your dock is in my water sir but I am not moving from this spot. They just ASSumed that the world belonged to them.

I am not saying it is any certain group of people for I have roots allover this country. I like the yanks alright and could even scratch some good of their ways on their turf. It's just the one's who don't take time to consider how permanent these changes are and not for the better and that how I live isn't so wrong. There's places here..."DEED RESTRICTED" communities that actually meaure one's grass and sends a note if it exceeds 3"? Any dummy knows that you don't cut Bahia grass less then 3"! LOL...and I"M the uneducated one!

[kydocfrog]

Yup...same thing has happened along the Carolina coasts I used to haunt in college.

Sad thing is that a few more hurricane seasons won't help. Up the coast from the Grand Strand up though the Outer Banks and all it was Hugo that cleared away so much of what was there and opended damn near the whole coast the the new megabuckyoucantgotothewaterthroughmy yard oh and fill the marshes to culture.

Sigh

DocA

[Oyster]

And how does talking about a flare, built by any means, have anything to do with the human race and a compass rose?  

[Ken_Potts]

Good point, Mr Oyster.

I am unfamiliar with Rob White's skiff but I know that surprisingly "curved" surfaces can be made just by laying narrow staves together diagonally across the area to be planked.

Oyster I can't remember from the photo you posted (I should have looked again before writing this) if the planks in your flared bow run fore and aft or across-ways or even diagonal but that's the sort of thing I'm talking about.  In this day of expensive wood narrow planks that need less carving can be an attractive option.

I guess I'm still too young to be able to talk about how the old-timers did it

[Oyster]

Well, let me see if I can reinvent the wheel here. Thius boat carries a constant deadrise bottom, all cross planked, with a keel and false keelson.

[Oyster]

Here is an example of a flared bow in strip planked construction showing the strips. In all of these shots, its better if you double click and open them up for clarity.

[Pipefitter]

The top pictures of the staved boat is more like what I was referring to in relation to the direction of the strips, but the front section was built off of the boat and then plugged in. Still looks quite similar and thanks Oyster, for posting those  pictures on here. The more I look at that boat,the more I like it. Is that going to be a dry sailed boat?